Spill Pipes

[lennybhoy]

hello all ,mrk 1 1999 tdi afn engine,bad starting probs been reading lots of posts about this subject,prob started after got a replacement engine (from a passat) garage changed over engines for me and left me with a few bits and bobs to put back my self?olike fuel filter cradle ive no idea how to attach it to  its just hanging there?they put a non return valve on the pipe that returns to the tank after the plastic connector on the filter ,i have looked at a few picts of a 1.9tdi engine afn and see the spill pipe go/come from the pump back/to the last injector looking from l/to right,but on mine its connected to the first injector ie next to the pulleys belt ect,is this right,have changed the maf (proper one not cheepo)changed the vairious sensors ,temp ect,cant find any pics yet of where the fuel filter cradle fits to,think my starting is due to fuel draining back to tank somehow? car starts ok after bump/and i know not to do it but a wee smell of brake cleaner in air intake anyone point me in the right direction please,my last post was about veggie oil in tank,outcome of that was a bad story(turned out to be a new timming belt fitted but not the kit,bought the car like that) thats why a replacement engin was fitted cos garage not this one stated it up then bent the valves,anyhoo here i am with this prob,hope you were reading this post with a nice coffee an a biccy cos its a good un thanks you guys great stuff lenny

[seatkid]

The spill lines should look like this

 

 

The fuel filter cradle is fixed to the back of the plastic box that surrounds the lower half of the battery and goes under the expansion tank.

[lennybhoy]

i see that its the way most photos ive seen ,but when i do it this way(as per piccy) the diesel pisses out of no 1 leek off? thanks for the info about the cradle by the way,i think that because the cradle is missing thus the filter is just hanging its drawing air somewhere so i am going to put a feed from a petrol/diesel container with the pump bulb staight to the main pump bypassing the filter altogether the reurn going back to the container if it starts ok that way ill start looking at the connections on the car itself am sure its gotto be air in system but where? thought id cracked it by the way the spill pipes were fitted but no joy there, ps when started it goes fine no loss of power bit smokey at start up but can still smell unburnt diesel though ? len

[lennybhoy]

just a thought ,could it be the main pipes are the wrong way round ie the feed now being the retun and the return being the feed would that effect the way the spill pies are that way around ? or am i way of base, its hard when someone else has been there before you as you have to try every thing, len

[lennybhoy]

cancel last post dumb idea   was just clutching at straws deffo a fuel prob drawing air back into the tank ?

[lennybhoy]

tried putting the cradle in place but no luck,no matter which way i try it i cant get the angles right must see if i can locate one in a scrappy ,more chance of finding lord lucan lol,point about the pipes though if i have them fitted this way around is it poss that the fuel could be draining back this way,ps just notice when moving bits around to get the bloody filter cradle in that the turbo inlet pipe (the long black plastic one is covered in  oil ,(is rthis normal?)give me a boat engin any day got to make sure all works ok cant bump start at sea heh heh anyhoo thanks seatkid your answers on this forum are spot on by the way many many thanks len,will keep trying to fix this fuel thing yet ,

[chrispb123456]

Think I would also be checking the timing?

Smoking and smelly exhaust fumes may be timing related.

[lennybhoy]

well was going to go down that road too,(if i knew how to lol) anyhoo if timing was off would the car not run well? as is when started she goes well ,bit of black smoke when holding on 4th gear but just a puff and then gone not all the time though when warm no smoke,you see when this garage?,gave me back my car you could not see it for smoke and i mean electing a pope smoke,they said it was the engine was prob knackered but on close inspection i noticed that the oil was way up the dip stick and black,remember i gave them new oil and filter?say no more eh so i drained the oil out cleaned the engine down cleaned the breather trap /pipes boy were they black ,car was still not starting right though but it was winter time,anyhoo the smoke was getting less and less enough for me to drive it about the industial estate cos had not mot at that time,just wondering if another oil change and flush would help read all the posts about bad starting and that  bit about the bottom cog slipping but i still think its air in the system,like when there is not enough fuel in the filter if you see what i mean ,many many thanks though for all the answers great help  will keep this going till job done in case someone else has same probs len

[chrispb123456]

It's a fine line between starting without issue and not, one tooth out is all that is needed to cause problems very briefly there is an opening at the top of the bell housing after removing rubber bung (may already be missing) this lines up with a notch on the flywheel when at TDC, you will then need to remove the rocker cover there is a slot in the end of the cam where you can fit a suitable sized piece of angle iron thats a snug fit.

The injection pump requires a locking pin to be fitted through the pump pulley after removal of the timing cover.

 

The haynes manual covers this and more, dedicated locking tools are available but can be made up fairly easily.

 

Would disregard any painted on timing marks until factory marks are confirmed, be aware there is no keyway on the camshaft sprocket it is a taper fit.

[lennybhoy]

cheers for that,its a bit too much for me though,but i have a mate who now owns his own garage (knows his stuff,it was him the first time that told me about the timing belt being slack other garage never even looked at that,) will get him to check this out for me,will keep you all posted about this,give me an old lister/petters engine any time heh heh,len ps still no joy with the cradle  lol

[lennybhoy]

near in tears now have stripped the battery box took out the coolant res,tried to see how this cradle/housing fits on to the back of the battery box? got to thinking have the gave me the housing from the doner engine /car ,this one has three legs bent at the ends one leg shorter than the other two,no matter which way i try it it wont fit has anyone got a piccy of what the thing looks like,(was never any good with jig saws lol,sorted the spill/leek off pipes as per pics thanks for that,still drawing air in at random,used a hand/primer pump to keep pressure on the fuel line  seems ok for a wee while then intermittent air bubbles but car still runs? yes am going to get the timing seen to as well,its a bloody nightmare going over what should have been done grrrr anyhoo will keep you all posted on this one many many thanks lads ( where the tissues) LEN need the tissues for clearing my eys from blue smoke lol

[seatkid]

Look here for fuel filter mounting

 

http://www.auto-parts.spb.ru/cat/au/au.mycat?SelPg&t=HDDbC9Qw2wuMMNsLXmqzMi1xgi1PaeUUFY7bCzPvWzscMNl0/BLfBxwGnRMcENuCEWMPx4/FwS2cPP5EWpHBkQYq1qIUm4sjSD4vnFjfb/MLSc62goaYqDAbyYt4Ft4PPzQeqQZFgI4ZjciuSW/oBkU1LoFcn98TxleVkFf2aHxCnU0/6L7jjsDKqTf4gTfFWvBgmTXyX4rsyJb7

 

A bracket (Item 13) is held onto the rear of the lower battery box by two bolts which are part of the bracket. The cradle (item 22) clips into item 13.

 

Just about see one of the bolts here (blurry) behind the battery.

 

Here you should be able to see the cradle mounted on the bracket (mine is broken and held  together with a tywrap)

 

As far as air bubbles in fuel line - have you checked the T piece in the fuel filter has an O ring fitted and its not worn or damaged?

[lennybhoy]

nae bloody wonder i couldnt fit the the thing its the wrong bloody one they have left me with the one ive got is metal with three legs one shorter others its the one from the doner engine grrrrrrrrrr,will try to see if any in local scrapyard as far as the other thing bubbles in the line the filter is brand new and if you mean the rubber ring in the filter its there the tee piece is a snug fit over the top no rings in the box when i got it,now heres a thing ive found out today ,i have a wee button uder the long shelf above the ash tray if i press and hold for 20 secs the car will spin faster and fire up wee puff of smoke then alls well now i rember when i bought the car the guy did say something about there being an aux heater for extreem cold weather ? is this right thanks lads  len

[lennybhoy]

no mention in the hand book or the workshop manual  about the button ?

[seatkid]

i have a wee button uder the long shelf above the ash tray if i press and hold for 20 secs the car will spin faster and fire up wee puff of smoke then alls well now i rember when i bought the car the guy did say something about there being an aux heater for extreem cold weather ? is this right thanks lads  len

 

No, its not right, there is no such button I know of. Sounds as if someone has fitted a manual glowplug switch. There should be no need for this as glowplug operation should be automatic, but he probably had a fault that he couldnt fathom so jerry rigged a switch. Lack of glowplugs would give difficult starting with white smoke initially when starting. Almost impossible to start in winter without glowplugs working....

 

Most diesel variants are fitted with an aux heater - nothing to do with engine starting though and again automtically controlled after the engine is started, in cold (< 5deg) conditions, it takes a minute or so to get going and provides extra heat to the coolant circuit so the heaters in the car work quicker. Its located under the car infront of the rear nearside wheel. It sounds like a jet engine when it starts.

Edited May 6, 2013 by seatkid

[lennybhoy]

what you reckon then leave as is or check out the wiring ? getting beyond me now saw a post about testing bus bar to a test lamp/multi meter ,will replace relay 109 ,see if i can start without button  hmmm wonder any hoo many many thanks to all who gave advice its great to feel like part of a family, getting to the bottom of this now i think/hope will keep posted though heres hoping tomorrow morning will see if she fires up first time then ,noticed today after the button thing that there was little or no smoke ? len

[SilverBeast]

Here's a picture of the Fuel Filter bracket in-situ with one of the turbo pipes removed. It's the same one as in seatkids diagram.

 

 

Mine was broken too and I bought one form the Ford dealers, it wasn't as too badly priced - not as much as I was expecting anyway! £7 rings a bell but my be way off.

 

Has the switch any symbols on it, or is it something that has been added?

Edited May 7, 2013 by SilverBeast

[lennybhoy]

the button is under the tray ,by holding the button in for 20 secs then let go it starts up a lot better less winding up on the starter then a cloud of grey/blue smoke clears quickly though and runs ok,the down side is i cant get to my mates garage at the mo,to get the timing seen to as this with the fuel prob was driving me crazy now when i get this thing all okydoky then i will do all the bits an bobs that are missing, the wife has great hopes though as she just bought a bloody tow bar for it ,? anyhoo many many thanks lads we are getting somewhere was this, your mate len

[lennybhoy]

by the way many thanks for the piccs am now able to figure out the bits that are missing thankyou for taking the time to do this for me

[seatkid]

Post a picture of the switch and we can see...

[lennybhoy]

that might be trick as button on underside of tray concealed just above the ash tray?so not able to show it ,would not get a camera near to it and the picture would be too dark,tidy job though cant tell if the button is there unless you know about it,no loose wires or bits of tape etc must do something though as car does try to start a lot better len

[SilverBeast]

From your description of what happens it sounds like someone has wired in the switch to force the glow plugs to run and bypass/override the engine managements control of these.

 

Assuming you have a laptop I suggest you get a VAG-COM/VCDS lead from ebay (<£10) and use the free VCDS-LITE software to scan for error codes.  Clear any you have first, try and start the car then scan again.  This may help identify the problem.  If you keep the car it will more than pay for itself anyway.

[lennybhoy]

yes i am trying to keep the car but its not getting any easier,i have a vag com lead but cant get the interface to identify so will prob buy another one with the drivers,was out at the beast earlier and was going over all the pipework to try to find out where the air is getting in,noticed the feed pipe rubber was very short ,so was wonering if i were to cut off the metat fitting and just attach the clear fuel line to the ends ,i might be able to see where the bubbles are ,you see when i attach the priming bulb to the line after the filter i can get it primed up but moments later i chave to prime again some times i see bubbles (car still not starting right away though)so seems i am pulling air in from the feed?but i might be drawing air in from the spill pipes? changing them over tomorrow for new ones,just to eliminate them what you guys think then am i in the rigt direction ? yours len

[lennybhoy]

well here we are or not?got all the pipe connections checked ,bought new fuel filter,new spill pipes ,new maf, new sencers ,checked all wiring  got the bloody beast fired up after an age but heh ho it was going,some smoke some air still just wee bubbles though then the final straw the dreaded gear selecter went ,checked the pop on connecters ok so its the bolt or something else,well its gonna be like that,cos ive had enough of this piece of crap,late nights burst bruised knuckles  lots of hard earned money spent,no more ,so its up for sale soon let someone else get the misery of this" thing" yours very pissed off len

[mrben]

Lovely clean engines you chaps have got...